Association Forum - Whisker pole for 250 WK

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Whisker pole for 250 WK

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

cwstrang
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
78 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/04/2010 : 06:40:34

Fellow sailors, I sail on the Columbia River in NW Oregon where due to the direction of the wind and the direction of the river tacking is a way of life. On the occasions I can do some down wind sailing I am wondering what length of whisker pole I would use to keep my jib filled. Also where could I find the best price? Thanks in advance, if it ever quits raining up here I hope to get out and fill the sail.

Craig

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2010 : 06:48:25

Craig,
Our '97 WK came with a whisker pole that is maybe 4' collapsed, & 8' extended? We found a 10' spinnaker pole on Craigslist a while back, a rigging shop in Anacortes was clearing out inventory, so we got a pretty good deal.

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2010 : 07:04:04

I took third in the 2009 Governor's Cup using a 9' painter's extension pole. Luckily, the wind was light.
Now I use a 6' to 12' adjustable for my 110. It's plenty long enough. I got it on Craig's List for $10 by posting a WANTED ad. I'm sure I got a little lucky with the price, but I'll bet you wouldn't have to look very hard to find someone with a dusty/rusty old whisker pole they haven't used in 5 seasons and which they would part with cheap.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2010 : 07:22:44

We use the Forespar HD 6-12-DL Whisker Pole.

We have a track on the mast to allow adjustments.

Both work great.

Edited by - on

cwstrang
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
78 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2010 : 11:36:43

Thanks all...! I will give craigslist a try before I decide to spend boat $$s. Craig

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2010 : 12:12:12

If you plan on flying something other than a 110, you might consider a 7-17 pole instead.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2269 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2011 : 19:37:09

I'd like to reactivate this thread with some questions relevant to my own situation.

As we've gained more confidence this year, we have started doing more wing-on-wing sailing. I generally prefer to keep the wind off our stern quarter, but sometimes we just have to go DDW to stay in the river, especially when opposing currents make tacking impossible.

In light winds our 110 genoa flops around a lot when going downwind, so a whisker pole seems like it would help. I've done my best to read the existing threads on this topic, but have a couple additional questions.

I'm not ready to spend big $$$ on a bigger or heavier duty pole, and attempts to find a used one have not yielded anything. Since I have a $20 WM coupon that expires in a couple days, and Defender's prices for this are worse than WM due to shipping surcharges, I picked up an inexpensive 6-12' pole (Forespar #406100, the one with latches at both ends) at their store today.

<center>

</center>

I think that this will meet my needs for getting started, since I only have a 110 genoa, and will use this generally in light winds.

My sheets are all 1/2", and the genoa sheets are a single line with a cow hitch through the clew cringle. The plastic latches at both ends of this pole are not nearly big enough to fit a 1/2" sheet. I'm considering putting a loop through the cringle for the sole purpose of attaching the pole. It would either be a 1/4" nylon or dacron loop, or possibly a SS quick link. Either will be a tight fit, because the 1/2" sheets really fill up the cringle at this point. This is part of the reason I did not consider a spike end on the pole.

Do any of you have experience to share with this? I think someone posted the loop idea in a previous post, and several people seemed to have the 6-12' ADJ (non-HD) pole with a C250.

I have not opened the pole's packaging yet, so I'm trying to determine whether to return it unused, or keep it and install it. I will not have much chance to test it out before haulout for the season.

My other question is about rigging a preventer, but I'll start a separate thread for this.

Edited by - TakeFive on 10/02/2011 20:58:45

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2011 : 20:34:42

Rick, we're also setting up a whisker pole (bought it for $100 a few years ago and it's sitting in the garage)
So I've done quite a bit of reading on them.

Everything I've read described the hazard of putting the outboard end of the pole into a loop or cringle. Everything explained that the sheet must be free to run through the end of the pole if the sail decides it needs to move in a hurry.

We're putting a track on the front of the mast like shown in Randy's pic. and an eye up on the mast so that the pole can be stored upside the front of the mast.

Paul

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2269 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2011 : 20:51:56

Paul - Thanks for the advice. We'll learn together.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 ...Everything I've read described the hazard of putting the outboard end of the pole into a loop or cringle. Everything explained that the sheet must be free to run through the end of the pole if the sail decides it needs to move in a hurry...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I recall reading something to that effect also. It may be in [url="http://www.forespar.com/pdf/techTips/F6-Whisker-Pole-Why-Checklist-Drawing-Jibing.pdf"]the Forespar literature[/url]. But these latches are too small for any sheet to slide through. Even my Phantom dink's sheets are too big!

Also, the sheet can't run free on their spike model. So while it may be preferable for the sheet to run free, it does not appear to be absolutely necessary.

I guess there are other ways that I could provide for the free movement of the sheets by looping some line or bungee material around the sheet instead of through the cringle, then through the latch. Maybe someone else here who has used the same pole I'm considering has found a way.

Edited by - TakeFive on 10/01/2011 20:52:52

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2011 : 05:39:45

Tie a short piece of 1/4" or 5/16" line to the clew of the jib to make a small loop and attach the whisker pole to that loop instead of trying to attach it to the sheets. It will work fine. We do this on our C-22 frequently, as well as on a friend's Capri 26, who has the same problem - sheets too big for the pole fittings.
One other thing you should do - attach a 1/4" line to the release pin at the sail end and tape it to the middle of the pole (near the end of the outer pole). That will make the release easier to reach for the person on deck.

Edited by - dmpilc on 10/02/2011 05:47:29

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5852 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 04:19:51

I also tied a loop through the clew and clipped the pole to it, and never had a problem with doing it that way, but I only used my whisker pole in light to medium winds - never in strong winds.

I suggest you replace the 1/2" sheets with something more like 3/8" sheets. I don't even use 1/2" on my masthead-rigged C&C 35. I only use 7/16" sheets on it, and the genoa is probably 3-4 times the size of the C250's 130 or 150 jib. In fact, I'm sure the jib sheets used on the 40' masthead racing boat that I crew on are no more than 1/2". 1/2" sheets are way too heavy for the sail. That's why the line won't fit the jaws of the pole. The pole was designed for the smaller lines that are typically used on a 20-25' boat.

The 1/2" line would make good spare docklines, for use when a hurricane is in the neighborhood.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2269 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 12:23:59

The 1/2" sheets came with the boat. I don't know why the previous owner(s) went with such oversized ones, unless they liked that hefty feel in their hands or liked the way they grab the winches better. 3/8" sheets have been an the list for offseason replacement. I'm keeping an eye out for sales. Any suggestions for where/when to get the best price?

Also, the blocks on the tracks, mainsheet, and vang all appear to be sized for 1/2" lines. Is there a problem running 3/8" though them, or do I need to replace them with smaller ones? (That could get really pricy!)

I'll re-check the size of the latches, but I still think that 3/8" is too big to slide through them. They looked really small. But even if so, I agree that the 3/8" sheets are more appropriate, as suggested in the C250 manual.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5852 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 13:22:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 The 1/2" sheets came with the boat. I don't know why the previous owner(s) went with such oversized ones, unless they liked that hefty feel in their hands or liked the way they grab the winches better. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It's like wearing both a belt and suspenders to hold up your pants. Guys don't do it because it makes sense. They do it because it makes them feel more secure.

When I bought my present boat, it had grossly oversized sheets and the furling line was oversized. The furler didn't work properly because the line was too big. The docklines were so thick they barely fit the cleats. Every application will work better if you use lines that are appropriately sized for the task.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2269 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 19:18:04

I went to the boat to size up the whisker pole. It was dark, so I did not want to drill the holes yet.

The latches on the end are sized for 1/4" sheets - 3/8" would be too big for it. So I put a 1/4" loop through the clew cringle. I'll still downsize the sheets to 3/8" in the off season, but it won't affect the operation of the pole.

The pole, when fully extended, seemed to be plenty long to match the angle of the boom on any downwind sail trim. As with all twist lock extension poles, it's a little sturdier if you have it extended 1' or more less than maximum. But no matter, it is not stiff enough to use in anything more than moderate breezes.

Optimum pad eye height for my 110 genoa was about 52.5" up from the deck - higher than I expected. At this height, it is level with the clew when fully extended. It is also conveniently high enough to duck under if I need to go to the foredeck. Different cuts of sail would obviously be different. Another advantage of mounting this high be that it seems high enough that sheets are less likely to get fouled on the empty pad eye it when tacking upwind. I think it will be overkill for me to install a track.

We're heading out tomorrow afternoon. The wind prediction shows that we may be DDW for the return leg up the river, so if the wind is not too strong I may try it out if I have time to drill, tap, and install the pad eye.

Edited by - TakeFive on 10/03/2011 19:26:58

tpartain
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
1 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2011 : 08:06:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Our '97 WK came with a whisker pole that is maybe 4' collapsed, & 8' extended?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

David
I remember that whisker pole and it worked pretty good. How have you been? How is 271 doing? I hope she's been as good to you as she was to me.

Edited by - tpartain on 10/06/2011 09:24:32

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2011 : 17:46:17

For 3/8" sheets, check out Milwaukee Rigging on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/3-8-x-96-ft-line-sheet-Sta-set-Rope-Wht-Red-Staset-New-England-Ropes-/350495868511?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item519b2e865f

I've also become very enthusiastic about BZZZ line for sheets, but the max size is 8 mm or about 5/16". It does work well with a 150 on the C-25, but you might find it a bit small in a blow with the 110. Often M.R. will have a piece of 3/8' Sta-Set in the 65 ft. range or more for a good price. The other line I like is XLE line, sold on Ebay by a guy that goes by roscoef:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NovaTech-XLE-halyard-sheet-line-3-8-x-100-White-RED-/190559266629?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item2c5e37a745

In Canada:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/3-8-x-100-ft-Cajun-XLE-yacht-rope-white-flecks-/360380624111?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item53e85becef

Edited by - dmpilc on 10/06/2011 17:56:44

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3312 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2011 : 08:45:49

" attach a 1/4" line to the release pin at the sail end and tape it to the middle of the pole"
A better idea is to run the small line the length of the pole attached to both bridles. Cut its length so that when the pole is properly extended the line lies snug against the pole. Now you don't have to guess how far to extend the pole and it's easy to trip from anywhere on the pole.

Edited by - on

rrick
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2011 : 09:24:53

If you land an older extendable pole with the twist lock, it isn't too hard to rebuild. Forespar makes a rebuild kit, but I went ahead and tightened up the wobbly end fittings with a clean chop saw cut (10" 50T Diablo blade), new rivet holes and Monel rivets, and repaired the mate of the aluminum tube to plastic twist-lock as the factory originally did, with a series of center punches. That last part gives an idea on why compression is strong and pulling or over-tightening/twisting is not.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2011 : 09:27:49

BTW, Rick, my local WM store happily accepts "expired" rewards--they say the expiration date is just to get people back into the store sooner.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2269 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2011 : 09:50:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 BTW, Rick, my local WM store happily accepts "expired" rewards--they say the expiration date is just to get people back into the store sooner.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, they've done that for me before too. But this wasn't rewards points - it was a $20 off coupon that they emailed to me. My experience before has been that they enforced the expiration date, though YMMV depending on which employee is helping you. So I guess they succeeded in getting me back in the store.

They always match Defender and other competitors, but in this case Defender's price was higher, and had shipping charges due to the large package.

I'm planning on mounting the pad eye this weekend. Does 52.5" sound unreasonably high? I realize that this depends on the cut of the sail, and it seems like mine genoa is cut for good visibility underneath it - definitely not a "deck sweeper."

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2269 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2011 : 20:38:12

I mounted the pad eye today. The pole's claw is a little bigger than I thought, and 3/8" line does slide through, so I'll be in good shape when I downsize my sheets to 3/8". Sorry I missed that ebay auction on the Sta-Set - I'll keep my eye out for similar deals.

One question was not answered yet. My track blocks and main/vang blocks are all sized for 1/2" line. Is there any problem with running 3/8" line through an oversized block?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 18:33:22

3/8" through a block sized for 1/2" shouldn't be a problem. 5/16" might.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.